.







.
This thread should be used for mature, serious discussion rather than soundbites please.


_________________
<u>Slaying Right wing lies with the weapon they fear most--the truth.</u>Millions of people don't believe in your diety & many might regard the bible as nothing more than an offensive story book.http://www.veganica.com/artist.php?artistid=32

mmissinglink wrote:

.







.
This thread should be used for mature, serious discussion rather than soundbites please.

Yes, I've tried dog while living in Korea. A little too gamey for me. But in the quest for survival, Fido doesn't stand a chance.


_________________
The trouble with the world is everyone's a few drinks behind.

dnews,

It's nice to see some of the old faces still around...I'm assuming many others have left indefinitely or temporarily?

It's nice to hear your daughter has chosen to commit to vegan eating. I'm not surprised that it is not a result of your prodding her to!

As for supplementing, I don't do it regularly and certainly I don't need to supplement protein as my vegan diet is rich in plant-based proteins. Mind you, my daily work is very physical work....it is routine that I haul stoves and refrigerators up to 5 flights walk-up (with the assistance of one helper) not to forget that there is quite a list of world class athletes whom are vegetarian and / or vegan. If your daughter is an athlete, there are websites out there from veg athletes where she can get nutritional advice. There are all sorts of vegan protein mixes that are high quality that she can prob get at a good health food store or order online. I personally have found this line of nutritional products especially high in quality and resulting in a noticeable difference in my energy levels when I do choose to supplement: http://www.americannutrition.com/store/greenstoday.html

____________________________________________________________________

John,

It seems clear that you didn't understand or perhaps I didn't make it clear enough, but this thread's specific premise is that the choice for what to consume is not one that is made when one is in a state of starvation or beseeches by abject famine but rather under relative / everyday / normal conditions. The question presented really boils down to a question of morality. Given the fact that prima facie evidence shows that there is no requirement in the human body for flesh, when one has the choice (like we all on RRStar presumably do) to consume animal flesh or not, does one decide to choose a diet that can only be derived via unnecessary violence (hyper-exploitation and killing of animals in the very least) or does one decide to make choices to diminish their complicity in unnecessary violence....it's a moral choice....carnism or refrain from carnism?


.


_________________
<u>Slaying Right wing lies with the weapon they fear most--the truth.</u>Millions of people don't believe in your diety & many might regard the bible as nothing more than an offensive story book.http://www.veganica.com/artist.php?artistid=32

@link: nice to see you back.


I see no real need for consuming flesh, but I also see no need for consuming nuts, lettuce, bread, Hostess chocolate pies, or anything else. All of the above can be eliminated and people can pretty much survive based entirely on pills, powders and energy drinks.

But that takes all the fun out of eating.

For me, eating is more than just sustenance. The experience of a good meal with friends is better than many vacations I've been on. I don't necessarily eat at Thai Hut because my body requires coconut milk and green beans -- I eat there because I enjoy the flavor of the food.

I can't help that I enjoy the flavor of a charred piece of cow, any more than a gay person can help liking a member of the same sex. Violence just tastes too good to give up.


_________________
"Illic est haud equus quoque mortuus barruo."
(There is no horse too dead to beat.)

mmissinglink wrote:

It seems clear that you didn't understand or perhaps I didn't make it clear enough....it's a moral choice....carnism or refrain from carnism?

I understood the question/bait quite well.

My vote: Carnism


_________________
The trouble with the world is everyone's a few drinks behind.

Thanks for the welcome Z.

"Violence just tastes too good to give up."

Might that rationalization apply to children as well (if, for argument's sake, it wasn't illegal to eat human)? Human flesh is remarkably similar to the flesh of other members of the class of mammal to which we are inherently members of.

Where do you draw the line (if you do) and why?

Afterall, remember, if children weren't meant to be eaten then why were they made out of meat?


_____________________________________________________________________________

John,

Thanks for your response. Care to elaborate on why this is how you feel?


.


_________________
<u>Slaying Right wing lies with the weapon they fear most--the truth.</u>Millions of people don't believe in your diety & many might regard the bible as nothing more than an offensive story book.http://www.veganica.com/artist.php?artistid=32

The body doesn't necessarily require flesh, but it doesn't necessarily reject it either, does it?







_________________
"Illic est haud equus quoque mortuus barruo."
(There is no horse too dead to beat.)

mmissinglink wrote:

Thanks for your response. Care to elaborate on why this is how you feel?

No


_________________
The trouble with the world is everyone's a few drinks behind.

Z, I hope you don't mind that I pick your brain here a bit. I've never gotten the sense of pretense in your comments, so please be candid as usual, Warning: I'm going to go a little beyond the pale for most people perhaps.

Quote:

The body doesn't necessarily require flesh, but it doesn't necessarily reject it either, does it?

I suppose Z, that depends upon the individual. I have known of people who's body reacted adversely to consuming flesh (unbeknownst to them with at least 2 individuals). The human body also largely doesn't typically reject all sorts of things (or at least, not for some period of time) it can readily metabolize that is not wholesome for it either....the extremely short list includes certain poisonous berries, fruits, mushrooms, and tubers, heroine, high proof alcohols, arsenic, Saxotoxin, digitalis, ricin, copper sulfate, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. That it can be eaten and metabolized is not a good criteria for what should and should not be eaten whenever possible in my view.

But what about tenderized and succulent prepared meat from children, drizzled with a hearty, rich barbecue sauce....other than it being illegal to consume, would you conceivably try it at least? Any meat can arguably be made to taste delicious. Prepared right, I'm convinced that you'd cherish the flavor of a charred piece of meat that just happened to come not from a cow but an upright ape....granted that you were unaware that the meat you were dining on was not your typically consumed mammal. Why draw the line at certain other flesh-laden mammals?

Is there another rationalization other than 'tastes good' that you can think of that plays directly into your decision to eat flavored parts of a body from whichever mammals that you prefer most?

I appreciate your candidness Z.



.


_________________
<u>Slaying Right wing lies with the weapon they fear most--the truth.</u>Millions of people don't believe in your diety & many might regard the bible as nothing more than an offensive story book.http://www.veganica.com/artist.php?artistid=32

mmissinglink wrote:

But what about tenderized and succulent prepared meat from children, drizzled with a hearty, rich barbecue sauce....other than it being illegal to consume, would you conceivably try it at least?

<drool> Well, when you put it like that.... Conceivably I might.
...But not likely. I prefer to stay away from our own species, even though a large amount of animals on this earth practice cannibalism for one reason or another (even herbivores).

Quote:

I'm convinced that you'd cherish the flavor of a charred piece of meat that just happened to come not from a cow but an upright ape....granted that you were unaware that the meat you were dining on was not your typically consumed mammal. Why draw the line at certain other flesh-laden mammals?

I'd probably cherish the flavor even if I was AWARE that it was a tasty ape steak. I consider myself a gastronome. I relish trying new foods, even ones that are generally unpalatable to our Americanized tastes. My family bought the cutest boxer puppy last year, yet if I were in Korea, I might try some dog.

Quote:

Is there another rationalization other than 'tastes good' that you can think of that plays directly into your decision to eat flavored parts of a body from whichever mammals that you prefer most?

Not really, though over the past year, I have been exclusively eating meat that comes from a farmers market, or at the least, from a reputable meat department, where I have been assured that the products are not coming from CAFOs. I prefer to eat happy meat.




.[/quote]


_________________
"Illic est haud equus quoque mortuus barruo."
(There is no horse too dead to beat.)

Z wrote:

I prefer to eat happy meat.

And we all know, happy cows come from California!


_________________
The trouble with the world is everyone's a few drinks behind.

dNews,

I don't know where you are going with that but you may find these articles of interest:

http://www.livescience.com/animals/071114-eating-young.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism_(zoology)

In case you may have misinterpreted my hypothetical scenario to Z, I in no way suggested that the human specie regularly feeds on their young. How Z responded (candidly I may add), it is clear he understood where my curiosity lies.

Btw d, what is / was the main motivation for your daughter going vegan? Thanks for your time.

Off topic: Does ldochop still post to this forum?


.


_________________
<u>Slaying Right wing lies with the weapon they fear most--the truth.</u>Millions of people don't believe in your diety & many might regard the bible as nothing more than an offensive story book.http://www.veganica.com/artist.php?artistid=32

No, LDO refuses to post here any longer.
He might be reading tho'.


_________________
The trouble with the world is everyone's a few drinks behind.

whoa....did an internet search and it brought me here........I haven't even thought about the RRSTAR in a year at least, and look what thread my search led me to....

Hello john and link


_________________
You can't divorce religious belief and public service I've never detected any conflict between God's will and my political duty. If you violate one, you violate the other.
"Jimmy Carter"

HAHHHA! LDO!


_________________
"Illic est haud equus quoque mortuus barruo."
(There is no horse too dead to beat.)

Does this mean you're back? Or are you just peeking to see if things got any better?

(HINT: They didn't)


_________________
The trouble with the world is everyone's a few drinks behind.